The Student Room Group

News Flash:Graduate GLut Devalues Degree!!

this title was on the front page of times this morning-Baldwin and Halpin

Do you think that labour plans for Uni expansion (50% of students)will threaten the prestige associated with degrees, as more students mean more competition for graduate jobs...
Competition for ivy league schools will increase and employers will be more prone to those graduates...

with falling salaries how will graduates repay loans...

but then again is it fair to restrict the no. of students on degree programmes so as to reduce the fierce competition for the limited blue chip jobs...20,000 according to the article...

If things continue in this direction...students will be forced to do a masters degree to stay ahead of the game...

For A level students- greater competition to get offers form the top five unis...
what do you think as the question on alot of minds will probably be 'is a degree worth it after all...'

Scroll to see replies

I agree, it won't make a difference. It will just mean that we'll have more better educated people outside the top few unis which will only help the economy, make everyone richer, more enlightened etc...
Reply 2
I am sick of this argument to be honest, as Pencil Queen says the places have been frozen for undergraduate degrees.

Finally as regard to the lower end universities they may let you in with ED but it dosn't mean you're going to actually pass and get a good degree out of it.
Reply 3
house badger
I agree, it won't make a difference. It will just mean that we'll have more better educated people outside the top few unis which will only help the economy, make everyone richer, more enlightened etc...


Exactly and that is what the government is trying to do, a better education society means a better econemy.
Reply 4
Pencil Queen
Well this one is easy to answer

No

All future growth in university places are on Foundation Degree courses - 2 year HND equivalents with a vocational bias.

Increasing the number of FD students/graduates will have no effect on the demand or prestige of degree students/graduates.


so pencil queen what about the drop in the starting salary ofgradutes from 13,422 2002 to 12659 2003...
there have been cases where degree students are doing work that does not require their qualification...

is it that degrees are not losing their prestige, but rather students are not fully prepared for the workforce as knowledge in a particular area is not the only things employers are looking for???
Reply 5
I think that although the new courses are foundation etc. the population including employers havent been adequately informed about this. It hasnt been made very clear by the government what they are doing and as a result employers dont think degrees are as prestidgious as they once were.
Reply 6
seana
so pencil queen what about the drop in the starting salary ofgradutes from 13,422 2002 to 12659 2003...
there have been cases where degree students are doing work that does not require their qualification...

is it that degrees are not losing their prestige, but rather students are not fully prepared for the workforce as knowledge in a particular area is not the only things employers are looking for???


there was a drop in City jobs in 2003 - average salary there is £20k+, don't know the exact amount though, so this will have contributed to it

plus, the degrees such as film / media studies, journalism, etc that land you in low paying jobs appear to be on the increase so this will also contribute to the drop
Reply 7
If the stat on the front page of the times today is correct which states that 40% of recent graduates are in jobs which dont require grad skills or have grad salaries (I think dont have article in front of me before I get corrected) then we do all have reason to worry.
Reply 8
viviki
If the stat on the front page of the times today is correct which states that 40% of recent graduates are in jobs which dont require grad skills or have grad salaries (I think dont have article in front of me before I get corrected) then we do all have reason to worry.


Then it's the increase in supply of graduates that's causing a two tier university system. Some degrees will have more value than others, which is a pity.
Reply 9
I really don't know why people are getting so worked up about this. Everybody knows that a degree from Paisley will not have the same value as Physics from Cambridge.

I'm at Salford and I am not worried about the influx of graduates. A lot of these graduates will setup their own business and employ graduates etc.

Also how do you determine what is a graduate level job? The job I am doing is not an undergraduate level job but I would not have got it if I wasn't doing my degree.
Reply 10
amazingtrade
I really don't know why people are getting so worked up about this. Everybody knows that a degree from Paisley will not have the same value as Physics from Cambridge.

I'm at Salford and I am not worried about the influx of graduates. A lot of these graduates will setup their own business and employ graduates etc.

Also how do you determine what is a graduate level job? The job I am doing is not an undergraduate level job but I would not have got it if I wasn't doing my degree.


Yes I agree people know the difference between Cambridge and paisley but the point is would the regular employer know the difference between Salford and Paisley. i have my doubts although according to the league tables there certainly is a difference.
Reply 11
ReturnofGnostic
How can higher education be ‘higher’ if 40% of 18 to 25 years olds have it?

And now Blair wants 50%.

Are 50% of jobs graduate-level? No, only about 15% max.

Currently, many people who have a degree will enter the world of work at a low-wage job, and may only ever reach an average level salary during their lifetime. There are already too many graduates chasing too few graduate jobs. Blair’s idiotic policy is a recipe for disaster.

Higher education should not be democratic, but elitist, not for the rich or poor, but for the intelligent, regardless of their parent’s income (students whose parents are middle-class are severely penalised under current arrangements).

What we need are more plumbers, builders, electricians, not media graduates!


it means therefore that we have to move a step higher than a first degree...master's level if Blair gets his way
Reply 12
seana
this title was on the front page of times this morning-Baldwin and Halpin

Do you think that labour plans for Uni expansion (50% of students)will threaten the prestige associated with degrees, as more students mean more competition for graduate jobs...
Competition for ivy league schools will increase and employers will be more prone to those graduates...

with falling salaries how will graduates repay loans...

but then again is it fair to restrict the no. of students on degree programmes so as to reduce the fierce competition for the limited blue chip jobs...20,000 according to the article...

If things continue in this direction...students will be forced to do a masters degree to stay ahead of the game...

For A level students- greater competition to get offers form the top five unis...
what do you think as the question on alot of minds will probably be 'is a degree worth it after all...'


How about education for the sake of education, rather than a job or anything else. That's why I'm going to university.

And it's "higher" education because it's at a higher level than what you've done before/is compulsory. Not too hard to work out.
Reply 13
bananaman
How about education for the sake of education, rather than a job or anything else. That's why I'm going to university.

And it's "higher" education because it's at a higher level than what you've done before/is compulsory. Not too hard to work out.


Exactly, that's the way I see it too. Surely the more people put through higher education, the better. Not just for career skills etc but for enlightenment and character building. Arguably, if you are well educted you will have a more fullfilling life because you will have the skills which enable you to have a deeper understanding of the world around you, or at least aspects or it. Education shouldn't be viewed purely in realtion to the economy.
Reply 14
ReturnofGnostic
What we need are more plumbers, builders, electricians, not media graduates!



Instead of going to LSE why don't you train as a plumber? No?

And the middle and upper classes should be hit hard!
bananaman
How about education for the sake of education, rather than a job or anything else. That's why I'm going to university


That's why I went, and at one time that kind of thing was possible. Now I'm finding myself in a situation where my debt is beginning to spiral and I'm starting to worry about how I'm going to pay it off. All the graduate job opportunities which people seem to be looking into are extremely competitive. There are solid 2:1 third years I know who have applied for 6 or 7 jobs and been rejected from them all. And this isn't Paisley; this is Oxford.
Reply 16
hildabeast
That's why I went, and at one time that kind of thing was possible. Now I'm finding myself in a situation where my debt is beginning to spiral and I'm starting to worry about how I'm going to pay it off. All the graduate job opportunities which people seem to be looking into are extremely competitive. There are solid 2:1 third years I know who have applied for 6 or 7 jobs and been rejected from them all. And this isn't Paisley; this is Oxford.


not surprised. the graduate training schemes are very hard.
people fire off hundreds of applications. if you're good at interviews, psychometric tests, doing group exercises etc, you'll be fine.

still, uni is a good life experience (not essential though for having a successful life/career by any means), and generally, i still think it is worth the investment (emotion, money, effort).

but that thing about graduates earning 400k more than non-grads
is a complete load of rubbish.
Reply 17
hildabeast
That's why I went, and at one time that kind of thing was possible. Now I'm finding myself in a situation where my debt is beginning to spiral and I'm starting to worry about how I'm going to pay it off. All the graduate job opportunities which people seem to be looking into are extremely competitive. There are solid 2:1 third years I know who have applied for 6 or 7 jobs and been rejected from them all. And this isn't Paisley; this is Oxford.


I assume they were all applying for high end jobs though? aka not senior shelf stacker at ADSA.
amazingtrade
I assume they were all applying for high end jobs though? aka not senior shelf stacker at ADSA.


Yes I would imagine so. However they were all graduate jobs, which senior shelf-stacker at Asda is certainly not. The thing is, I'm honestly not trying to make any offensive comment when I say this, but in my opinion the amount of work people will do during their time at Oxford will generally be much more than those at other universities. The main reason why most people even do it is because of the belief that it will lead to a top end job. In many cases people do fine here academically but just don't get the jobs they had hoped for and end up in the 'lower end' jobs. So was there really any point in going to Oxford and working your arse off? This is what I'm beginning to wonder.
More and more people are recognising that getting a job is going to be really tough and are completing internships and trying to get work experience. However there is more and more competition for these now. It's just one uphill struggle all the way.
Reply 19
hildabeast
Yes I would imagine so. However they were all graduate jobs, which senior shelf-stacker at Asda is certainly not. The thing is, I'm honestly not trying to make any offensive comment when I say this, but in my opinion the amount of work people will do during their time at Oxford will generally be much more than those at other universities. The main reason why most people even do it is because of the belief that it will lead to a top end job. In many cases people do fine here academically but just don't get the jobs they had hoped for and end up in the 'lower end' jobs. So was there really any point in going to Oxford and working your arse off? This is what I'm beginning to wonder.
More and more people are recognising that getting a job is going to be really tough and are completing internships and trying to get work experience. However there is more and more competition for these now. It's just one uphill struggle all the way.


It will be worth it in the end, I often wonder why I am at university when my mates are all earning money, however the reality is they are 20 years old and still earning £10k a year. The fact you went to Oxford and worked hard will pay off one day if not straight away.

I would gladly take any job when I graudate in computing as I know somthing better will come up or my degree will mean I am more likely to get promotion. I think is more the advantage of having a degree these days.

I guess the problem with just going to university for education sake is the money, you need to get a good job open graduation to pay of the steep loans.

Latest